Are you saved? An Orthodox perspective

A few friends sent me this incredibly thought provoking video. I love the one particular line that says 'I am being saved daily'. I was saved when Jesus died (justification), but I am still 'living towards' that reality (sanctification).

I was challenged by this video!

What are your thoughts on salvation!? I recently wrote a chapter on the scourge of HIV/AIDS in Southern Africa in which I asked the question 'What does it mean to be saved when you are HIV+ and poor?' Surely it is something different from what it means to be saved when you have an income, a home, and good health?

I'd love to hear your thoughts!

____

Mark Penrith asked such a great question, that I thought I must elevate his question and my response to the actual post (just in case anyone doesn't open the comments!)

Thanks Mark!

markpenrith said...

Salvation is not a relative position. You either are or you're not. Salvation is not a temporal status tht you can fall into and fall out of. It also doesn't differ based on economic, social, ethnic or ... reasons. It's objective, measurable and positional. Have I missed the boat.

5:19 PM

digitaldion (Dion Forster) said...

Hi Mark, Thanks for the reply!It is always great to hear from you!I don't think you've missed the boat. However, I do have a question and a comment to make. First the comment - Indeed, I agree that within the ordus salutis (the order of salvation) the most critical element of the order, salvation itself, is entirely dependent upon our Gracious God. That is unchangeable since it is always the same (it is a salvation from something towards something else - this is the Biblical perspective of both Jesus and Paul). In most instances it is expressed as salvation through Christ from sin (and that sin is separation from God the source of life and love) towards reconciliation with the God who is the source of all true life and love.Traditionally we, as Protestants, have believed that this is the second step in the order of salvation. It is called justification. This step is entered into when we respond to the first step (previnient grace, or 'preventing grace').Step one is where God convicts us of our sin and we have the good sense to respond to that loving conviction in repentance (turning from sin towards God).Then, the second step is the act of justification (a term coined by Paul, used particularly in Romans) in which God saves us from the sins that enslave us. However, there is a Biblical distinction between being saved from the sins that enslave us, and Christ overcoming sin! Jesus overcame sin and death (according to 1 Corinthians and Romans) when he died on the cross and rose form the dead - in that sense salvation took place 2000 years ago and it is unchangeable! It is that reality that makes the first step in the order of salvation possible! However, the second step (being saved from the specific sins that enslave us today), justification from sin, that could differ from context to context! The sin that I struggle with may be different from the sin that enslaves you. Jesus sets me free, today, from that specific sin. Then there are traditionally two more steps in the order of salvation.Step three is growing in grace, 'working out our salvation with fear and trembling' as Paul describes it to the Philippians - [it is also called sanctification]. This is very much a context based thing! Yes, it has to do with an internal spiritual state of purity and holiness (being sanctified, or set aside), but it requires daily turning from the specific things that enslave us. This could be anger, bitternerness, hatred, abuse, fear, stigma (whatever is not of God).The final stage is entire sanctification - this is an unchanging element of salvation. So, I would say that of the four steps, one and four are immutable. They are entirely God's sovereign work. Steps two and three are relational, God in God's grace allows us to respond to God's power and love and so these are personal (or at least social) and they have a contextual element to them. Does that make sense? Be blessed! Dion

Now, I never got to the question I said I would ask of Mark (comments are only allowed to be a certain length on blogger!) The question I would ask is 'what does it mean to be justified and sanctified in South Africa today?'  I know that salvation means to be saved from our sin, and that the end state is an entirely restored relationship with God the creator, but form what sins do you and I need to be set free, and what do we need to turn away from daily in order to grow closer to God and the rest of God's creation?  I can assure you that it will be something different from what the person in Darfour faces, and different still from the person in New York, or the person in China.  The beginning and the end are the same, but the bits to which we are called to respond differ radically.  Don't you agree?

What I forgot to mention is that I have written about the Order of Salvation (repentance -> justification -> sanctification -> entire sanctification) in my little book Wesleyan Spirituality - An introduction  (Forster, DA 2001, Cape Town, Methodist Publishing House).

Thanks once again Mark

Comments

[markpenrith]

Salvation is not a relative position. You either are or you're not.

Salvation is not a temporal status tht you can fall into and fall out of.

It also doesn't differ based on economic, social, ethnic or ... reasons.

It's objective, measurable and positional.

Have I missed the boat.

[digitaldion (Dion Forster)]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply! It is always great to hear from you!

I don't think you've missed the boat. However, I do have a question and a comment to make.

First the comment - Indeed, I agree that within the ordus salutis (the order of salvation) the most critical element of the order, salvation itself, is entirely dependent upon our Gracious God. That is unchangeable since it is always the same (it is a salvation from something towards something else - this is the Biblical perspective of both Jesus and Paul). In most instances it is expressed as salvation through Christ from sin (and that sin is separation from God the source of life and love) towards reconciliation with the God who is the source of all true life and love.

Traditionally we, as protestants, have believed that this is the second step in the order of salvation. It is called justification. This step is entered into when we respond to the first step (previnient grace, or 'preventing grace'). Step one is where God convicts us of our sin and we have the good sense to respond to that loving conviction in repentance (turning from sin towards God). Then, the second step is the act of justification (a term coined by Paul, used particularly in Romans) in which God saves us from the sins that enslave us.

However, there is a Biblical distinction between being saved from the sins that enslave us, and Christ overcoming sin! Jesus overcame sin and death (according to 1 Corinthians and Romans) when he died on the cross and rose form the dead - in that sense salvation took place 2000 years ago and it is unchangeable! It is that reality that makes the first step in the order of salvation possible!

However, the second step (being saved from the specific sins that enslave us today), justification from sin, that could differ from context to context! The sin that I struggle with may be different from the sin that enslaves you. Jesus sets me free, today, from that specific sin.

Then there are traditionally two more steps in the order of salvation. Step three is growing in grace, 'working out our salvation with fear and trembling' as Paul describes it to the Philippians. This is very much a context based thing! Yes, it has to do with an internal spiritual state of purity and holiness (being sanctified, or set aside), but it requires daily turning from the specific things that enslave us. This could be anger, bitternerness, hatred, abuse, fear, stigma (whatever is not of God).

The final stage is entire sanctification - this is an unchanging element of salvation.

So, I would say that of the four steps, one and four are immutable. They are entirely God's sovereign work. Steps two and three are relational, God in God's grace allows us to respond to God's power and love and so these are personal (or at least social) and they have a contextual element to them.

Does that make sense?

Be blessed!

Dion

[Gus]

Such a challenging video.

My eyes are constantly being opened to what 'salvation' means.

'Salvation is at hand' - would mean a liberating army is approaching - yet we have tried to squish it into a fairly modern set of meanings; to do with 'personal piety'.

Salvation announces the dawn of a new era for all humanity; the King has conquered the enemy and established his rightful reign. It is up to us now to choose whether or not we will be citizens of the New Kingdom, or continue fighting for the old; if we choose to be citizens - help is at hand...

I worry that 'Biblical' ideas about salvation have been replaced by convenient one-liners that fit easily into tracts and handouts that convince people to get 'saved' or 'go to hell'. (Blasphemous in my opinion).