'God is petty' - Gareth Cliff (5FM radio personality). What happened?
Friday, December 7, 2007 at 7:27AM Here's the story of Gareth Cliff's remarks about God being 'petty', and the subsequent story that unfolded. I received the petition and was concerned that he was able to say things like this on air. I don't want to infringe on his right not to believe in God, but it does infringe on my beliefs when he expresses views such as this publicly and without sensitivity or restraint...
From News24:
Cape Town - 5fm DJ Gareth Cliff is in trouble again. The controversial radio presenter has caused a furore by calling God "petty" on his breakfast show.
However, according to Cliff's manager, the incident has been blown out of proportion and taken out of context.
"Cliff has been accused of blasphemy for referring to a news report of the Teddy Teacher Gillian Gibbons who had been arrested in the Sudan for naming a teddy bear Mohammed."
"Blasphemy should not be a crime," Cliff said in an e-mail on Thursday.
"If God is great, why would he be so easily offended by what a mortal man says? If God has such an ego, then he must be petty."
Since the show, numerous e-mails have been circulating on the web with petitions "to get Cliff off air".
News24 has also received numerous complaints of users saying that Cliff "has gone too far".
'God is not petty'
June Jousten, a News24 user from Gauteng, said: "What really gets to me, is that this seems to happen on a daily basis and that the South African Broadcasting Association does little to zero about it."
In the midst of the furore is Gerda-Mari Povey, a 5fm listener from Pretoria, who sent an e-mail of complaint to Cliff on Thursday morning after listening to his show.
Povey forwarded her e-mail correspondence with Gareth Cliff to News24.
She wrote to him: "You know what, Gareth, I love your show, but this morning u shocked me!!!! just wanted to say, God is not petty!!!!!
"I pray that something drastic will happen in your life, that will allow you to experience the loving kindness and mercy of God..."
"As a Christian, I really felt offended," she told News24. "He (Gareth) should have more respect for people's religion. He has offended many of his listeners."
"What if my children had heard his comments. It was very irresponsible of him. I'm normally the kind of person who just keeps quiet, but this time it was just too much."
Hate mail
Cliff's short reply to her e-mail was: "Stop sprouting nonsense. There is no god. There is no tooth fairy and there is no Father Christmas."
Povey said: "I was so upset. I was almost in tears. I forwarded his response to a few of my closest friends, but I never intended this e-mail to be circulated through the entire country."
Povey told News24 she had been receiving a lot of hate mail since Thursday.
"Some people have said to me, how can I know for sure that it has indeed been Gareth Cliff who replied to my e-mail. Well, I sent my initial e-mail to 5fm's mailbox and Cliff replied to my e-mail from his personal e-mail. Who else at 5fm could have written that e-mail?"
"I don't have anything against him personally, he can debate politics etc all he wants, but when it's about religion, he should show more sensitivity."
Tribunal
Cliff's manager told News24: "Gareth has always been opinionated and loves debating. He has responded to Povey by e-mail as a courtesy and has treated her in the same way as he would have treated a friend."
In his follow-up e-mail to Povey, Cliff placed into context what he was trying to say on his show.
"I will never agree with you just as you find my lack of belief so distasteful. The difference is that I concern myself with people, and try to be a good and hopefully moral person.
"I don't need blessings or permissions or prayers. I'm a happy guy."
According to his manager, Cliff was not available for comment until Thursday morning.
"The SABC has called a tribunal at the Broadcasting Complaints Commission in Johannesburg on Thursday morning at 09:00 to discuss the issue. It will be open to the public.
"The SABC has come to his defence and believes his comments have been taken out of context."
And, here is Sarah Britten's commentary,
"If God is great, why would he be so easily offended by what a mortal man says? If God has such an ego, then he must be petty."
Gareth Cliff, commenting on the teddy bear named Mohammed. A listener from Pretoria then wrote to him to complain. Gerda-Mari Povey wrote:
"You know what, Gareth, I love your show, but this morning u shocked me!!!! just wanted to say, God is not petty!!!!! I pray that something drastic will happen in your life, that will allow you to experience the loving kindness and mercy of God…"
He then apparently wrote the following to her:
"Stop sprouting nonsense. There is no god. There is no tooth fairy and there is no Father Christmas."
Povey has subsequently received hate mail, along with questions about whether it was Cliff who actually responded to her. However, Cliff then mailed her again, explaining:
"I will never agree with you just as you find my lack of belief so distasteful. The difference is that I concern myself with people, and try to be a good and hopefully moral person. I don’t need blessings or permissions or prayers. I'm a happy guy."
This means that Gareth Cliff is one of the very few South Africans to emerge from the belief closet and effectively declare himself an atheist. In a country where religious conservatism is more predominant than many of us like to think, that's a brave thing to do.
Any person who uses their position of public influence to humiliate others is neither 'moral' nor a 'good person' in my estimation. Quite apart from his 'popular' religious sensibilities, his email shows disdain toward a member of the public....
Not my cup of tea. I am sorry to say that my estimation of Gareth Cliff has been lowered, for what it's worth, not for his views on religion - I am not surprised by uninformed and shallow approaches to a Universe filled with mystery! That happens every day! I am disappointed in the manner in which he dealt with this issue, and the ordinary listener who expressed her opinion in relation to his. Clearly he was dismissive of her, yet he wanted to have the right to have his opinion heard without challenge!
I heard his half hearted explanation (which he assured the listeners was neither an apology, nor an admission of wrongdoing) this morning.... If he was truly brave he could have either stuck to his guns... Or, he could have been brave enough to admit he was not right in the way he treated a member of his audience.
Just my two cents worth!
Technorati tags: God is petty, Gareth Cliff, not so clever, lacks integrity
Reader Comments (11)
yeah i got to agree. He definitely could have handled it better..
What i want to know is, how does he know/think God is offended by what we say or choose. He did give us freedom of choice after all...
Hi R,
Thanks for the comment. Two quick things:
1. I actually tend to agree with Gareth Cliff - I don't think that God is that easily offended. Rather, it is us religious folks that are offended... God is gracious, religion tends to be a little less so. However, to say that God is petty is to suggest the exact opposite!
2. With regards to Gareth Cliff's handling of this matter, there is no doubt that he felt the heat, and responded off the cuff (as most of us would do). But then one should either A) stick to your decision and say 'I don't give a hoot what you think, this is what I think because that's the way I am!', or 'I responded too quickly, and was pressed, I appologise for dismissing you and insinuating that you're a dimwit simpleton. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine'....
But, then again. I have made MANY mistakes in my life, and there are many more lying ahead!
I feel for the guy... I also feel for the poor woman who has been dragged into the centre of this media frenzy for standing by her convictions. She clearly doesn't have an agent, or a media empire to back her up.... She must be feeling the heat herself!
Yeah Dion
Gareth Cliff tends to say things the way he sees and feels them, I'm sure he has his opinions to but generally his approach is honest. (i think this is why most people enjoy his show so much - it's blunt).
I agree - i'm a christian myself but i boil inside when i see religion in action. People can't seem to see the difference between a loving God and religion..
Anyway good post. :)
retrosaint
www.retrosaint.co.za
Much more of nothingness. Grow up people, if you're going to rant about blasphemy from celebrities you'll never get anything else done. If you're so consumed by being petty yourself, maybe you should pose questions to your own belief system.
If he doesn't believe in God, who the hell cares?
Starting a hate campaign just emphasizes your own little insecurities.
To Povey: What if your children heard it???? What if they watched porn? What if they're exposed to violence? What if they see a suggestive ad on TV? What if they hear you or your husband/boyfriend/friend/family member curse? What if, what if, what if?
If you're trying to protect your children from everything, best would be to lock them out from the world and maybe next time you should think twice before you amplify such a "petty" revelation from someone that puts you and your children in jeopardy AND their possible exposure to more of the same.
If he doesn't want to be a Christian, let him be. If he doesn't feel like being bombarded with Christianity, he has the right to say so.
I'd hate even to think about the time wasted to "crucify" him when you could surely have done something productive with your time. Like educating your kids on the diversity of life, the freedom to expression and the freedom to practice a religion of choice.
Very interesting and well written post.
I am also quite upset with this whole Gareth Cliff (awa Deon Maas & The Golden Compass) debacle. Not because of what Gareth said, but the way the public (more specifically, the religious right) acted on it!
What happened to Free Speech? What happened to people's intellectual capacity to be able to listen to someone else's opinion without having to accept it or reacting to it?
I raised my own thoughts on this topic over at my blog:
http://zavibes.com/index.php/gareth-clilff-accused-of-blasphemy/
Have a read. Have your say.
I've blogged about this post and the entire story here: http://nicharalambous.com/2007/12/07/gareth-cliffs-going-to-hell-ill-see-him-there/" REL="nofollow">Gareth cliff is going to hell.
Nic, your post offers a wonderful perspective. Thanks for the mention. It is very much appreciated. I have reposted my response to you in my comments here. I hope it will further the conversation.
PS. I notice that we both studied at Rhodes! Great place! Good times! I spent a few hours (well more than a few) in the computer labs at Journ...
Here's my response to your post:
One Response to “Gareth Cliff’s going to hell, I’ll see him there”
1. Dion Forster on December 7th, 2007 12:44 pm
Thanks for the reference! Much appreciated.
My hope is that no-one goes to hell! Certainly not for the sake of religion (or lack thereof)!
Just to mention that your belief that there is no God worth believing in is as elitist as my contention that there is a God worth believing in. Both positions are founded upon what each of us believes to be both sensible and true - mine is founded upon a belief in God, yours is founded upon something equally valid for you (whether that be human achievement, self actualisation, belief in the lack of belief… etc.) These positions are not mutually exclusive however. They only become elitist when we use them to alienate others, or degrade their perspective. Contrary to that is the possibility of diversity and respect, which allows for us to hold this difference in tension and not in opposition.
Let’s not get pushed into our corners of conviction and forget that each of us has a right to hold, or not hold, each other’s ‘religious convictions’.
My problem is not with Gareth Cliff’s religious conviction (or his perceived lack thereof), rather it is with the manner in which he dismissed someone from his position of prominence and standing in the community.
Contrary to popular belief race was not the primary cause of abuse in Southern Africa - rather it was the application of power without restraint. Race was the differentiating factor - in fact if you read Steve Biko’s marvelous book ‘I write what I like’ you will see that he acknowledges and celebrates the richness of diversity that is to be found in difference. Difference does not automatically lead to perspectives of superiority. Rather, such outomes are as a result of choices and actions to oppress and silence others.
Sadly, religion has been the cause of a great deal of abuse in similar respects (whether it be formalised religions such as Islam or Christianity, or whether it be the secular ‘religious ideologies’ of Capitalism, consumerism, or a myriad of other facts that form and motivate peoples choices and actons).
My own position is that no belief or value system should have the right to oppress any other.
In spite of my disagreement with your perspective I appreciate your comments and insights.
Regards,
Dion
I just think that everyone is overly sensitive about everything. They moan and whine about anything and everything. If you don't like Gaerth listen to something else. If your kids are in the car listen to CD's. Your kids have to grow up in a multi cultural, multi religious, democratic society and you can't protect them from everything. There are people who are murders, rapists, racists, sexists and this stories are on the news everyday. Are you just gonna block your kids ears and eyes from the truth? Instead of teaching your kids tolerance and understanding of the multi cultural society we live in??
I seriously think this think was seriously blown out of proportion. And if you do listen to Gareth's show, you would know the type of person he is...
You know the strange thing is, Gareth was referring to the Moslim God, Allah. BUt it's the Christians who are making all the noise? I mean can't the Moslims voice their own concerns?
Just let Gareth be... Listen to a CD, Jacaranda or Highveld and lock yourself in your house where you can access intolerance there!!
I believe that every person has a right to raise their opinion, but if you are in a position where your opinion reaches the entire national community then be careful with your words.
Any person would defend someone they love and respect if anything negative is said about that person. Would you not defend your Mother if someone said she is petty, if you know that she is not?
Gareth Cliff is more than welcome to believe in whatever he wishes to, but be respectful of the religions and cultural believes of others. There is no need to say that God is petty, just because that is your view. If it had been a debate that morning than this would not have happened, but instead he made a negative statement where no one else could give an opinion.
He should now take whatever comes his way.
GOD IS DEAD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spagetti_monster
Hi
Please accept that God does not get offended by his creation His is God.